Curse

{IceFire} · Dec 16, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

dammit GW needs mounts horses dragons i dont care

/signed

Kai Nui · Dec 16, 2005, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Wow, I can't believe so many people are agreeing with this ridiculous idea. It's a copy of Lineage, it's not original. This doesn't fit in with GW, and this is just undermining Beast Mastery so much more. Why have a pet when you can have a DRAGON and in addition, you can ride on your dragon? give me a break.

darkdragon99 · Dec 16, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Wow, I can't believe so many people are agreeing with this ridiculous idea. It's a copy of Lineage, it's not original. This doesn't fit in with GW, and this is just undermining Beast Mastery so much more. Why have a pet when you can have a DRAGON and in addition, you can ride on your dragon? give me a break.

y is it there is always someone who can point out where it's been used befor

and oh

everything you say and do or think you came up with has been done befor at this point so no point in whining about it

brybry · Dec 16, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

/super signed
i love your drawing dude. i want that armor on my warrior! I really want a dragon or horse to ride. Why does a-net give lineage stuff to ride while gw stays behind on their bare feet?
and again
/super signed

actionjack · Dec 16, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Wow, I can't believe so many people are agreeing with this ridiculous idea. It's a copy of Lineage, it's not original. This doesn't fit in with GW, and this is just undermining Beast Mastery so much more. Why have a pet when you can have a DRAGON and in addition, you can ride on your dragon? give me a break.

I aways like to reply back to those who "disagree" with me...

Of couse, each to our own opinion, but I already consider this...

Yes, Many many other games have mounts... why? Cause people want them, they feel they are "cool" charing into battle on a mighty stead.. and that is the purpose of a fantasy game. Now, unlike other MMO, I strested many time in my op, that mount suggested here are not for the purpose of tansporation or moving faster.

GW already have mobs that rides on beast, or centurs, so it is not realy far fetch off.

Rides are not pet... when you don't ride them, they don't attack, only tag along. Actually, might drop the idea of Dragon riding, and change it to Magical Stone Golem Beast Riding (like the Lion or Tiger statue in game, or have dragon ones...) That way, you have more excuse as to why they are not attacking. Also you can still have pets and mount, together!

Now, how unbalance is it? I would like to hear. Note that I didn't put any real number in, so to keep it open.
------------------------------------------------
to brybry: thxs for liking my drawing... its people like you who encouage me to post....

mangakiwi · Dec 16, 2005, 08:50 AM // 08:50

/signed

actionjack · Dec 31, 2005, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I will bump me thread with this mock screenshot of Dragoon. (with parts cut and paste from the game) Of couse.. in my concept, I think the Mounts should not be real dragon, but more of an Animated Animation (made of stone and other materials) with the look of Drake or Dragon. A sort of a magical Guardian Beast.

Jas · Jan 01, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Oh my... this is gonna be a long message

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Class name: Dragoon/Dragon Knight/ Rider

My first impression was the Boss on the drake you kill at Thunderhead Keep (I can't remember his name atm). Am I right if I say this prof would be something like that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Weapons: Spear/Lance and Polearm/Halberd type. They are different than the normal melee weapons. Spears have a more focus damage (a max might have a 24-32 attack range), with similar speed as a bow. It attacks in a thrusting motion in a straight row (so if two foe stand in front of you in a row, you can hit both of them at once).

I think that the Spear should be able to harm only 1 opponent, but there could be a small possibilty (say 20%) for that foe to be interrupted/knocked down when hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Polearm weapon have a wider damage range (18-32), and attack in a 30-degreen Fan sweeping motion (so might hit up to 5 at once, if the enemy is standing in a cone shape in front of you).

Polearm would be very slow to attack, but it would then have higher maximum damage. And of course it would also cause interrupt/knock down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Ridesmanship (primary)
(See special concept) Its primary to make it easier to create riding animation (just need one model for one class), as well as to better balance the weak armor that Dragoon have.

Why couldn't it be called something simple as Animal Riding? Or Pet Riding?

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Out of Control
Your Mount can sometime go “Out of Control”. This may be cause by seeing an enemy, when its hp goes low, attack by an elemental attack it doesn’t like, etc. It will be depend on the personality of that mount, and what type it is. When it does go out of control, you won’t be able to control its (and yours, since you are on it) movement for few seconds, and it might go charge into the frenzy of enemy, or run away from battle when you don’t want I to. More attribute points in ridesmanship will reduce the chance of that happening, and can also carry a skill “Rein Control” to get them back in control.

I wouldn't make it charge into enemy but run away only (for like 10-T secs, T depending on your skill level at #Ridesmanship#)

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Tanker:
10e | 2c | 60r : In next T seconds, you mount will take 66% of the attack for you.

I think it the percentage of the tranferred damage should be considerably lower (like 25-33%). The pet's armor wouldn't have any runes on it anyway (meaning: major or sup. abs.), and it would get killed rather quickly, and I think it wouldn't like that

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Tight Saddle:
10e | 1c | 45r : In next T seconds, will not be Dismount.

This one should be a stance. Stances may be ended by attacks (for example, Wild Blow). Otherwise... ok. Casting time could be 3/4.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Spear Mastery

Throw Spear:
5e 4a| 1c | 10r : Throw your spear for a Range attack. You will suffer a self-imposed “Disarm” condition for 3 seconds.

Pin Down Throw:
5e 6a| 1c | 10r : Throw your spear for a Range attack that deal only 50% of damage, but make your target cripple for T seconds. You will suffer a self-imposed “Disarm” condition for 3 seconds.

Interrupting Throw:
5e 4a| 1c | 10r : Throw your spear for a Range attack that deal 50% damage, but interrupt target’s current action. You will suffer a self-imposed “Disarm” condition for 3 seconds.

Range of those attacks should be short (Like for example Ice Spear)

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Half Moon Swipe
15e 4a| 1c | 20r : Attack all in the front.

Full Moon Swipe
20e 8a| 1c | 45r : Attack all foes around. Easily interrupt when casting.

Tail Swipe:
15e 6a| 1c | 30r : In the next T seconds, foe around you will also suffer X% of your attack each time you attack.

Power Swipe:
15e 8a| 1c | 30r : Your target foe suffers X extra damage, and enemy around you suffer Y damage.

Force Swipe:
15e 8a| 1c | 30r : Deal no damage, but Knock Back all foes in the front.

Easier Swipe:
0e 4a| 1c | 30r : Reduce the next use Polearm Swipe skill by 5 energy.

Push Block:
5e 4a| 1c | 30r : Block the next melee attack to you. If successful, will
Knock back the foe.

I think that when you attack with Polearm, your AL should receive a slight penalty, like -20 cause it will open up your defences when you do the strike.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Fire Breath
10e | 2 | 30r : X fire damage per second to all foes in front for 3 seconds. (cone shape range)

Ice Breath
10e | 2 | 30r : X Ice damage per second to all foes in front for 3 seconds. (cone shape range)

Make it 5 Energy only and towards 1 opponent only. Half the dmg if opponent wearing a shield (you must be able to cover yourself behind a shield like all the great knights of legendary tales

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Dragon’s Wing:
15e | 2 | 30r : You “Jump” back, dodging the next attack, and attack with X extra damage.

I would make the "Jump" a 75% evade... damage bonus is ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Dragon’s Blood:
5e | 0c | 30r : Sacrifice X hp, but you gain Y pip of hp regent in next T second.

I would rather have this to steal some HP from the mount to the master, bit like the Necro skill Taste of Death. Making it like 50-100 HP's transfer.

Anyway... a nice idea and I think it would really be nice to have at least some mounts in the game (be they horses or mules... or dragons).

Scion of Darkness · Jan 01, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

How could any one even think to suggest not allowing it becuase it would be too like other games, true some things should not be added becuase they simply are not Guild warsy, classed however are not one of those things. I mean really, how many MMOs have things like...um, Rangers and Warriors and Mages (eles.) The classes of GW are not unique to GW, and also I dont believe there is a class in Lieage devoted to mounts like this one is (in therory anywho)

/signed John Handpenis style (not sure if i would get in trouble for using his real name even though i think i would be most definately be allowed to use his name as i too have that word in my last name:Glasspenis. I love it)

sorry if that post sounded flamie, that is not how it was intended to sound.

actionjack · Jan 01, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Since I got quoted, guess need to give back a proper reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas

My first impression was the Boss on the drake you kill at Thunderhead Keep (I can't remember his name atm). Am I right if I say this prof would be something like that?

Well.. sorta. But I would change to a more magical none-living guardian drake-beast type than actual Drake. The Art team will figure it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jas

I think that the Spear should be able to harm only 1 opponent, but there could be a small possibilty (say 20%) for that foe to be interrupted/knocked down when hit.

Spear are more for single oppoent, since it would be rare to have enemies standing in a row for you to hit. I would not have a passive knowck down associate with any regular attacks. But feel free to suggest related skill with it, maybe like a Spear Knock down skill.

Quote:

Polearm would be very slow to attack, but it would then have higher maximum damage. And of course it would also cause interrupt/knock down.

Polearm are slower (maybe about the attack speed of a bow), but with some AoE damage effect (front 45 degee). Good for crowd control. (of couse, also need to take in the account that it will be less effect at close melee range)

Quote:

Why couldn't it be called something simple as Animal Riding? Or Pet Riding?

Name could always change. maybe Mount would be better? But no on Pet Riding... since its not really a pet, or an animal...

Quote:

I wouldn't make it charge into enemy but run away only (for like 10-T secs, T depending on your skill level at #Ridesmanship#)

Yes, the chance of out of control is related to the attribute. But I would still make it charge into enemy, since to some.. it is a unwanted risk, which is the drawback that would keep mount different and more balance. Again, it would be depend on what type of mount you are on.

Quote:

I think it the percentage of the tranferred damage should be considerably lower (like 25-33%). The pet's armor wouldn't have any runes on it anyway (meaning: major or sup. abs.), and it would get killed rather quickly, and I think it wouldn't like that

Some people don't like the share damage as well. That part could need some work on, but it is not to make having a Mount too overpowering. Again, the choice of the Mount (weither you pick a high hp vs low hp mount) would play some effect here, since want to make it a valid strategy to kill the Mount first.

Quote:

This one should be a stance. Stances may be ended by attacks (for example, Wild Blow). Otherwise... ok. Casting time could be 3/4.

Stance on a Mount? Could be... but why? Casting time could be lowed.

Quote:

Range of those attacks should be short (Like for example Ice Spear)

Yes... about the typical casting range.. or shorter.

Quote:

I think that when you attack with Polearm, your AL should receive a slight penalty, like -20 cause it will open up your defences when you do the strike.

It not a bad idea.. but don't think need it. Maybe can add it to the more overbalance skill as a counter weight.

Quote:

Make it 5 Energy only and towards 1 opponent only. Half the dmg if opponent wearing a shield (you must be able to cover yourself behind a shield like all the great knights of legendary tales

)

but Cone shape range its its biggest uniquness! They could move out the way as well.
Of couse... could always add a skill like:

Fire Tongue
5e | 2 | 15r : X fire damage to a single target in mid range.

Quote:

I would make the "Jump" a 75% evade... damage bonus is ok.

The skill only say dodeg one attack... how about adding this one?

Draco's Dive:
15e | 0 | 15r : You have 75% evade for 3 seconds, but can not attack or use skill in duration, and at the end of duration, you attack your target for X more damage. (they could dodge it with a stance, or just run out of range)

Sprial Dive: [Elit]
10e | 0 | 20r : You have 100% evade for 3 seconds, but can not attack or use skill in duration, and at the end of duration, you attack your target for X+ more damage. (they could dodge it with a stance, or just run out of range)

Quote:

I would rather have this to steal some HP from the mount to the master, bit like the Necro skill Taste of Death. Making it like 50-100 HP's transfer.

Such skill might go under the Ridesmanship. The pose skill is a way for Dragoon to heal (all class have its way of healing). The HP regen you gain will be much greater than the one you lost, thus giving you more HP back.

Quote:

Anyway... a nice idea and I think it would really be nice to have at least some mounts in the game (be they horses or mules... or dragons).

You sure a picky about lots of thing.. espcially the skills.

Always nice to have a constructive comments, and I do like to Q&A. And give some good inspiration to other skills. Feel free to give more suggestions or what you would think would be over balance. That is what the post are for.

brybry · Jan 01, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

i love it...
/signed

Manic Smile · Jan 01, 2006, 04:45 AM // 04:45

I wanna ride a char...

Charrider

ohhhh and a blue mage

Jas · Jan 01, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

This time I'll make it a lot shorter

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Spear are more for single oppoent, since it would be rare to have enemies standing in a row for you to hit. I would not have a passive knowck down associate with any regular attacks. But feel free to suggest related skill with it, maybe like a Spear Knock down skill.

I wonder how you could possibly hit two foes simultaneously with a spear without outright piercing the one in front of you, thus killing that foe. It is after all a long stick with just a sharp end - not a huge battleaxe that hacks its way through the opposition.

The skill related...

Spear Thrust:
10e / 0c / 30r With your next attack you deal +X damage to your opponent. If that opponent is suffering from Deep Wound or Bleeding, that opponent is knocked down for T seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Yes, the chance of out of control is related to the attribute. But I would still make it charge into enemy, since to some.. it is a unwanted risk, which is the drawback that would keep mount different and more balance. Again, it would be depend on what type of mount you are on.

Some people don't like the share damage as well. That part could need some work on, but it is not to make having a Mount too overpowering. Again, the choice of the Mount (weither you pick a high hp vs low hp mount) would play some effect here, since want to make it a valid strategy to kill the Mount first.

But when would it charge in? Only when the Rider has decided to participate in combat since the distance where it sees the opponents is the same when the opponents see it ( = aggro range). I think it wouldn't be a big disadvantage, unless it tried to go through their lines as well...

I would still be a bit careful with the power of the Mount as the Dragons in GW (Glint & Co.) have a strange tendency to withstand unbelievable amounts of beating. But if the mounts were only Drakes... they sound too easy to kill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Stance on a Mount? Could be... but why? Casting time could be lowed.

I tought that skill was a riding skill... to prevent you from falling down from the back of the mount. Thus I suggested it being a stance, but it wouldn't be bad to have a Stance on a mount as well. Why would it be a stance? I pondered how to classify it (whether it is Stance,Shout or Skill) and ended up in Stance. You have a Stance that prevent you from being knocked down (Dolyak something...) and I think this was kinda similar to that.

*** And speaking of Dolyaks - I still wonder how those short fellows get up there?

***

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

The skill only say dodeg one attack... how about adding this one?

Draco's Dive:
15e | 0 | 15r : You have 75% evade for 3 seconds, but can not attack or use skill in duration, and at the end of duration, you attack your target for X more damage. (they could dodge it with a stance, or just run out of range)

Sprial Dive: [Elit]
10e | 0 | 20r : You have 100% evade for 3 seconds, but can not attack or use skill in duration, and at the end of duration, you attack your target for X+ more damage. (they could dodge it with a stance, or just run out of range)

Those will be the longest 3 seconds in the game... you are just standing there doing nothing at all. And then you strike only to find that your opponents have either died or left.
But they would not be overpowering, I'd be ok with those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

You sure a picky about lots of thing.. espcially the skills.

Always nice to have a constructive comments, and I do like to Q&A. And give some good inspiration to other skills.

Oh, thanks

Eventhough this may never find it's way to the game, it's always fun to plan things and what would be a more fun way to do it, than doing it co-operatively.

Jaythen Tyradel · Jan 01, 2006, 03:44 PM // 15:44

/singed
however, i agree with the mounts. We dont need this profession to be a rider..he could have the dragon/drake as a pet like a ranger.
other than that ..great Idea

Markaedw · Jan 01, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

It would not be a seperate class, it would end up being a beastmaster skill, just like the summit dwarf mounts. It would be balanced because only one can fight; either you, Droylak, or the beast, Dwarf Beastmaster.

actionjack · Jan 01, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Hmm.. just wondering why would not have a Mount? Few people dis like such thing, but want to hear a more detail explaination on it.

I would not like to see it treated as a Pet, since Pet are only exclusive for Rangers. And pet should not be ride upon, since that is abusing the animals...

Jaythen Tyradel · Jan 01, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

OK..about the mounts.

Personally...I LIKE THE IDEA.
however, it doesnt seen the right idea for GW, IMO

First:
MAp jump. Mounts would be nice to ride over long terrain where speed and the ability to avoid enemies matters in order to reach the next zone/town.
WE have runners that seemt o do this well enough on foot. Distance between towns and zones arent that far. ANd of course, one you get there, you cna jump automatically back and forth without the hassle of time lost. Mounts "might" add more runners to the game if they add more speed/defense to that players profession. IE: LF DRAKE RUNNER!!

Second:
As stated by a previous poster, once one group has it, the others will want it.
Other profession players will want a mount of some sort that they can use. The will come the demand for customization of armor for mounts, looks and type of mounts, buyers/sellers of mounts (if allowed), and who is faster/better for a mount.

Could it work? Yes. If the rider/mount was a seemless charachter. No extra defense or speed from mount. Health of rider is tied to health of mount. Like Dwarven beastmasters, when the beast dies so does the rider(this also means that there is no dismount of animal excpet for towns). Attacks are tied together so either the mount attacks or the rider...no combo unless is it some type of special or elite skill.

In conclusion,
as I stated before, I like the idea of this profession, I like the ideas of mounts.
However, unless carefully done, it wouldnt work for GW.

actionjack · Jan 01, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaythen Tyradel

OK..about the mounts.

Personally...I LIKE THE IDEA.
however, it doesnt seen the right idea for GW, IMO

First:
MAp jump. Mounts would be nice to ride over long terrain where speed and the ability to avoid enemies matters in order to reach the next zone/town.
WE have runners that seemt o do this well enough on foot. Distance between towns and zones arent that far. ANd of course, one you get there, you cna jump automatically back and forth without the hassle of time lost. Mounts "might" add more runners to the game if they add more speed/defense to that players profession. IE: LF DRAKE RUNNER!!

Second:
As stated by a previous poster, once one group has it, the others will want it.
Other profession players will want a mount of some sort that they can use. The will come the demand for customization of armor for mounts, looks and type of mounts, buyers/sellers of mounts (if allowed), and who is faster/better for a mount.

Could it work? Yes. If the rider/mount was a seemless charachter. No extra defense or speed from mount. Health of rider is tied to health of mount. Like Dwarven beastmasters, when the beast dies so does the rider(this also means that there is no dismount of animal excpet for towns). Attacks are tied together so either the mount attacks or the rider...no combo unless is it some type of special or elite skill.

In conclusion,
as I stated before, I like the idea of this profession, I like the ideas of mounts.
However, unless carefully done, it wouldnt work for GW.

Everyone is entitle to their own opinion. Hope you won't take any feel of offense for my "counter" to you comment, but just want to point out to few things (since I like to interact with the repliers)

Yes, I positively agree with you on NO TRADITIONAL MMO MOUNT in GW. Already said before, mount is not really use for transportation or running. (and even suggested a slow moving but lots HP mount). But they might still be consider a better runner.. however, nothing is stoping A.net in putting some "Anti-Rider" type of monster in game and at key place of the map, which would have skills like Dismount, Knock Back/Down, and Slow.

Mount is the "Perk" of this class, like Ranger's pet. All class could ride a mount... provided you take Dragoon class as primary. (I was debating of should make Ridesmanship primary or not... however, since Mount really would balance to such class's lack of armor, it seem better at time to make it primary)

Mount, its concept, might need a bit or rework. The share damage and have it able to attack without skill of its rider might be a bit too much, but that will be needed to play test to see.

So in conclusion.. I agree with you. Unless carefully done, it wouldnt work for GW. Now, since this is a suggestion forum, won't mind in hearing ideas of how such thing could be done.

Jaythen Tyradel · Jan 01, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjack

Everyone is entitle to their own opinion. Hope you won't take any feel of offense for my "counter" to you comment, but just want to point out to few things (since I like to interact with the repliers)

Yes, I positively agree with you on NO TRADITIONAL MMO MOUNT in GW. Already said before, mount is not really use for transportation or running. (and even suggested a slow moving but lots HP mount). But they might still be consider a better runner.. however, nothing is stoping A.net in putting some "Anti-Rider" type of monster in game and at key place of the map, which would have skills like Dismount, Knock Back/Down, and Slow.

Mount is the "Perk" of this class, like Ranger's pet. All class could ride a mount... provided you take Dragoon class as primary. (I was debating of should make Ridesmanship primary or not... however, since Mount really would balance to such class's lack of armor, it seem better at time to make it primary)

Mount, its concept, might need a bit or rework. The share damage and have it able to attack without skill of its rider might be a bit too much, but that will be needed to play test to see.

So in conclusion.. I agree with you. Unless carefully done, it wouldnt work for GW. Now, since this is a suggestion forum, won't mind in hearing ideas of how such thing could be done.

First, thank you for such a great counter response. Its good to see a civil response now and then.

I am still mulling over how it could work the best for GW if it were to be implemented.
Primary focus:
Design
I personally think that the rider/mount would have to be one charchter.
Not just shared damage/health, but for graphics purposes.
Animating seperate movements then the rest my add more complexity than anet wants to do. However, its not impossible.
Also, when buying armor, it is armor that you upgrade for your mount. The change of armor reflects both the rider and mounts looks. Saves designing two sepreate types of armor and save the player gold frmo having to buy two types of armor.
Second part of design would be types of mounts.
This could be debated by whats in tyria and waht could be added. FOr example purposes lets use drakes.
Do we stick with one type of drake? or do we allow the rider to "trade in" his mount for a bigger/newer/better type of drake. From my view point, the focus is mainly on the mount as the main point what people/enemies see. So maybe keep it simple by having the mount grow in size as you progresses in levels. Using dyes to color the armor will also help in looks.

Fighting.
As I suggested before, the rider/mount share damge and health. Attack skills are tricky actually thinking about it. Rangers, spellcasters have advantage for they have range weapons they can use if used as a secondary to the dragoon primary. Warrior secondary is left at a disadvantage unless they can use polearms or long reaching pikes as weapons.
Making the rider the primary attacker allows for balancing of skills. Choosing your mounts attack as secondary prevents rider and mount attacking causing double damage and being considered overpowering.

Speed:
I like the idea of slower movements with the benfit of higher AL.
With knockdown skills, an added balance (or disadvatage) may be that the rider/mount stay down longer when knocked down. Using skills properly will help keep the rider on the mount (doylak signet for example).

That is it for now...need to think this over more...however, the more I think about it, the better I like this idea.

Jaythen Tyradel · Jan 01, 2006, 11:52 PM // 23:52

PS

fftopic

read your profile...

Happy birthday actionjack!